From nmorison at MIT.EDU Sat Dec 15 03:15:14 2007 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:15:14 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Writing workshop list Message-ID: <4762AC12.1050506@mit.edu> Hi all. Thanks for the email addresses you have me at Joe's party. Antony asked if he should reply to all when responding to my story, and I said yes. Then I realized this was a mailing list application. I created a mailing list for sharing writing and responses to writing and subscribed you all. This is not spam. This mailing list does not include free cellphone ring tones. It is a standard way of handling group communication. Using a list means you'll get the occasional list admin message, but the advantage is that there are built in mechanisms to subscribe and unsubscribe and there's an online record of postings and so on. The archive of messages is at http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/ General information about the list is at: http://hermiod.instanthosting.com.au/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com The admin messages from the list should tell you how to manage anything you want to do. Please let me know if you have any questions. I'll send my story to the list, so it will be archived. That means you'll get another copy of the message. That's the last gratuitous email for now. Please send your stories and responses to the list: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com Thanks again, Neale From neale at nealemorison.com Sat Dec 15 03:21:00 2007 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:21:00 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Repeat email: The Uncomfortablists Draft 2 - Neale Morison Message-ID: <4762AD6C.4070000@nealemorison.com> As threatened, here is a repeat of the email I sent with my story. This one is sent to the mailing list writingworkshop at nealemorison.com for archiving. Email storm over for now. Hi all. It was great to meet you in class and at Joe's party. Thanks for volunteering your email addresses. Any and all feedback is welcome. I would be delighted to read and provide feedback on any writing you want to send. We could make a habit of this. All the best, Neale -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com nmorison at mit.edu http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: The UncomfortablistsDraft2.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 56862 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20071214/ba19ca8e/attachment-0001.pdf From and at MIT.EDU Sat Dec 15 07:15:45 2007 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:15:45 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] The Uncomfortablists Draft 2 - Neale Morison Message-ID: <1197663345.5346.70.camel@dasein> As always, for me, I read the chapters first then the synopsis (and tenets). Definitely a great opening line! I'm really intrigued by the not-quite-surrealist nature of the society you've created. Your prose is quite compelling. The first chapter holds up pretty well as a short story, the second chapter less so, but for me the second chapter seems incomplete. So, the episodic nature is coming through. The synopsis seems to work, but as with any story, it's the telling that matters, not the telling about the telling. I think you'll want to avoid slavishly revealing each and every Uncomfortablist tenet as the work develops. You should probably rethink "Smokers will be required to wear airtight helmets," because smoking makes many people uncomfortable. I think you want to examine each of the tenets to avoid accidentally increasing comfort. I wrote what follows as I read the chapters then realized that the main reason I want the cuts removed is that it interrupts the flow of your prose. For me, the work kept me reading, but some of the cuts didn't help that. At 3.8, I'm not sure the break adds anything, but it doesn't take much away either. At 6.10 the cut to end the scene seems too abrupt. I think it might work better if you have the bus ride end (and include the uncomfortable parting of May and Ben) and then transition to the bustle of the school. Especially since May becomes important to Ben. I don't really think the cut at 18.10 works either. We only get to see the start of the uncomfortableness. I think you should stay with the scene until the discomfort drives one of the men (man or boy) away. If this is going to be a novel then fewer cuts and more transitions might be better (would be for me). On the other hand the cut at 16.8 is just right. The fade to black as the couple falls toward the bed. At 20.7, I think you could just leave out the break and it would work. At 20.10, "There's nothing for it but go in" is awkward (even if you add a "to"). Page 21, add more flesh to the bones (again, eliminate the cuts with transitions, but also flesh out the final scenes). I hope it's clear that I think what you've produced is quite good. Antony PS - If we end up workshopping revisions, we should give some thought to how best to handle that. I'm not sure how to deal with finding the three sentence change in the forty page manuscript, but it certainly applies to these chapters (i.e. I don't expect your revisions to be extensive beyond adding to chapter two). I don't know of a good PDF diff utility. Ways to do a diff on a PDF? Yes. Good? Not so much. From neale at nealemorison.com Sat Dec 15 08:08:29 2007 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:08:29 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] The Uncomfortablists Draft 2 - Neale Morison In-Reply-To: <1197663345.5346.70.camel@dasein> References: <1197663345.5346.70.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <4762F0CD.9040904@nealemorison.com> Thanks very much for your response, Antony. I like the idea of prolonging some encounters for added uncomfortableness. The hug at the end is a prime candidate. Good point about the airtight helmets. And it's good to see you're right on board about avoiding comfort. I hadn't realized that the cuts might feel choppy. I'll see if I can make it smoother. I'll wait for a few more responses then post another draft. To handle redrafts, I can use the review track changes feature in Microsoft Word. I just checked it and the reviewer change tracking color shows up in the PDF. There's a similar change tracking function in OpenOffice WRiter, the free cross platform word processor. It's in the Edit/Changes menu. It exports to PDF with highlighting in the same way. There is PDF diff software out there but I haven't yet located a good free one. Thanks again, Neale Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > As always, for me, I read the chapters first then the synopsis (and > tenets). > > Definitely a great opening line! I'm really intrigued by the > not-quite-surrealist nature of the society you've created. Your prose > is quite compelling. The first chapter holds up pretty well as a short > story, the second chapter less so, but for me the second chapter seems > incomplete. So, the episodic nature is coming through. > > The synopsis seems to work, but as with any story, it's the telling that > matters, not the telling about the telling. I think you'll want to > avoid slavishly revealing each and every Uncomfortablist tenet as the > work develops. You should probably rethink "Smokers will be required to > wear airtight helmets," because smoking makes many people uncomfortable. > I think you want to examine each of the tenets to avoid accidentally > increasing comfort. > > I wrote what follows as I read the chapters then realized that the main > reason I want the cuts removed is that it interrupts the flow of your > prose. For me, the work kept me reading, but some of the cuts didn't > help that. > > At 3.8, I'm not sure the break adds anything, but it doesn't take much > away either. > > At 6.10 the cut to end the scene seems too abrupt. I think it might > work better if you have the bus ride end (and include the uncomfortable > parting of May and Ben) and then transition to the bustle of the school. > Especially since May becomes important to Ben. > > I don't really think the cut at 18.10 works either. We only get to see > the start of the uncomfortableness. I think you should stay with the > scene until the discomfort drives one of the men (man or boy) away. > > If this is going to be a novel then fewer cuts and more transitions > might be better (would be for me). > > On the other hand the cut at 16.8 is just right. The fade to black as > the couple falls toward the bed. > > At 20.7, I think you could just leave out the break and it would work. > > At 20.10, "There's nothing for it but go in" is awkward (even if you add > a "to"). > > Page 21, add more flesh to the bones (again, eliminate the cuts with > transitions, but also flesh out the final scenes). > > I hope it's clear that I think what you've produced is quite good. > > Antony > > PS - If we end up workshopping revisions, we should give some thought to > how best to handle that. I'm not sure how to deal with finding the > three sentence change in the forty page manuscript, but it certainly > applies to these chapters (i.e. I don't expect your revisions to be > extensive beyond adding to chapter two). I don't know of a good PDF > diff utility. Ways to do a diff on a PDF? Yes. Good? Not so much. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From cjrobi at MIT.EDU Tue Dec 18 01:01:41 2007 From: cjrobi at MIT.EDU (Christopher Robichaud) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:01:41 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] The Uncomfortablists Draft 2 - Neale Morison In-Reply-To: <4762F0CD.9040904@nealemorison.com> References: <1197663345.5346.70.camel@dasein> <4762F0CD.9040904@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <000901c840b5$5a79d050$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> Hi All! Neale, thanks so much for setting this up! It's awesome! I just wanted to let folks know that I'm psyched to comment on work and pass along my own, but not much will be happening on my end until the start of the New Year. I'm swamped with wrapping up business at the Kennedy School and rushing along a draft of my thesis. Then I'm officially taking a much-needed two week vacation! -Chris -----Original Message----- From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 4:08 PM To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com Subject: Re: [Writingworkshop] The Uncomfortablists Draft 2 - Neale Morison Thanks very much for your response, Antony. I like the idea of prolonging some encounters for added uncomfortableness. The hug at the end is a prime candidate. Good point about the airtight helmets. And it's good to see you're right on board about avoiding comfort. I hadn't realized that the cuts might feel choppy. I'll see if I can make it smoother. I'll wait for a few more responses then post another draft. To handle redrafts, I can use the review track changes feature in Microsoft Word. I just checked it and the reviewer change tracking color shows up in the PDF. There's a similar change tracking function in OpenOffice WRiter, the free cross platform word processor. It's in the Edit/Changes menu. It exports to PDF with highlighting in the same way. There is PDF diff software out there but I haven't yet located a good free one. Thanks again, Neale Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > As always, for me, I read the chapters first then the synopsis (and > tenets). > > Definitely a great opening line! I'm really intrigued by the > not-quite-surrealist nature of the society you've created. Your prose > is quite compelling. The first chapter holds up pretty well as a short > story, the second chapter less so, but for me the second chapter seems > incomplete. So, the episodic nature is coming through. > > The synopsis seems to work, but as with any story, it's the telling that > matters, not the telling about the telling. I think you'll want to > avoid slavishly revealing each and every Uncomfortablist tenet as the > work develops. You should probably rethink "Smokers will be required to > wear airtight helmets," because smoking makes many people uncomfortable. > I think you want to examine each of the tenets to avoid accidentally > increasing comfort. > > I wrote what follows as I read the chapters then realized that the main > reason I want the cuts removed is that it interrupts the flow of your > prose. For me, the work kept me reading, but some of the cuts didn't > help that. > > At 3.8, I'm not sure the break adds anything, but it doesn't take much > away either. > > At 6.10 the cut to end the scene seems too abrupt. I think it might > work better if you have the bus ride end (and include the uncomfortable > parting of May and Ben) and then transition to the bustle of the school. > Especially since May becomes important to Ben. > > I don't really think the cut at 18.10 works either. We only get to see > the start of the uncomfortableness. I think you should stay with the > scene until the discomfort drives one of the men (man or boy) away. > > If this is going to be a novel then fewer cuts and more transitions > might be better (would be for me). > > On the other hand the cut at 16.8 is just right. The fade to black as > the couple falls toward the bed. > > At 20.7, I think you could just leave out the break and it would work. > > At 20.10, "There's nothing for it but go in" is awkward (even if you add > a "to"). > > Page 21, add more flesh to the bones (again, eliminate the cuts with > transitions, but also flesh out the final scenes). > > I hope it's clear that I think what you've produced is quite good. > > Antony > > PS - If we end up workshopping revisions, we should give some thought to > how best to handle that. I'm not sure how to deal with finding the > three sentence change in the forty page manuscript, but it certainly > applies to these chapters (i.e. I don't expect your revisions to be > extensive beyond adding to chapter two). I don't know of a good PDF > diff utility. Ways to do a diff on a PDF? Yes. Good? Not so much. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 _______________________________________________ Writingworkshop mailing list Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com From danieltpeters at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 15:55:58 2007 From: danieltpeters at gmail.com (Daniel Peters) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 23:55:58 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Indeed. Message-ID: <9c8415cd0712182055g5af6d8abtf10a2b34ef1e2b16@mail.gmail.com> The uncomfortablists an apology on the delay, overtime in the service of rich peoples diets. Yay. The story. I don't know how helpful I will be. I am completely charmed by this story, or more specifically by your style. The dialouge on the bus comes off perfectly and the pledge...the pledge is awesome. You've got a nice momentum building into the shoot out and the fact that he kills his best friend is nicely done. I would have liked to know more about the other students reactions, both to roy and to the vigilantes, although I understand the narrator is in no postion to diagnose the other people in the scene. You clearly have a gift for setting, the way you subtly insert descriptive asides, and the description of the music made me smile. The little description of mays about the school in the aftermath is excellent too, I dug it man, tell May to give me a call. On the less sunny side I felt the flow of Ben's thought was a little rough during the firefight and not due to its setting. I also wondered about his yelling at Ted to stop, did he know it was Roy? Then why didn't we know it if we are following his thoughts, i understand the need for effect, but..... I'm worried you won't have enough here for a novel man, short of fully delving into this world. I'm a little worried about the history lessons as a means to dispense the necessary info dumps, sounds like it could veer easily into cliche or boredom, although I like the fact that you place the episodes as themes of elements of the uncomfortablist agenda. The ending sounds perfect. Daniel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20071218/e75d77b2/attachment.html